Use of Force: Philadelphia Police Department November 2013 Voiceover: Beat Intro 00:00 This is the Beat—a podcast series that keeps you in the know about the latest community policing topics facing our nation. Barry Bratburd 00:08 Hello and welcome. My name is Barry Bratburd and on behalf of the COPS Office I’d like to introduce you to Commissioner Charles Ramsey of the Philadelphia Police Department, who is here to discuss use of force issues. Can you tell us about use of force issues in Philadelphia? Charles Ramsey 00:22 Well I mean it’s a concern, it’s a concern in every department I’ve worked in. I’ve worked in three different departments: Chicago, Washington, D.C., and now Philadelphia, and it’s a concern, not only in those three departments, but nationwide. I think that’s why it is an issue. We have policies in place; we have training; we have follow-up investigations. But we can continue to evolve, continue to learn, continue to make sure that we’re giving our officers all the tools they need so they can encounter situations knowing they have the right training and equipment and use a minimal amount of force if they have to use any force at all to take someone into custody. So it continues to be an issue that is on the minds of police chiefs across the country; particularly use of deadly force. I mean, there’s nothing more sacred than human life and whenever you have to take a life, which unfortunately sometimes in the line of duty you’re called upon to do that, you want to make sure that there were no other options available to you. Barry 01:29 Now how does your community perceive use of force issues? Charles 01:32 Well it’s kind of a mixed bag in Philadelphia. I mean, there was a recent article that was written in the Philadelphia Enquirer around use of force; we had over a, I think, three day period we had like seven police shootings. It was very unfortunate. Six of the people were armed with firearms, one with a knife and of course it was played up pretty substantially in the media. But when you read the comments that people left after reading the article it was surprising that there was just no, there was no concern on the part of many. But that doesn’t mean that we should not take a serious look at use of force to make sure that our officers are doing it properly. Now, obviously, some communities are more concerned than others and usually that’s communities of color where the tensions tend to be higher; where the crime tends to be more intense and officers that have patrol in those particular areas. So a lot of it depends on who you’re talking to and which community that you’re dealing with. But our job is to see to it that we have solid relationships in every single community and that they all understand use of force and the options available to officers and know that if an officer does have to resort to deadly force that they’ll be thoroughly investigated, objectively investigated, and they can rest assured that we don’t take it lightly. Barry 02:54 All right, now what initiatives are you implementing to engage the community as a partner in your public safety efforts and to enhance the department’s relationships with the citizens you serve? Charles 03:04 Well we haven’t done enough, quite frankly. I mean, one of the things that I’ve learned from listening to Sheriff Gillespie and Las Vegas is how aggressive they’ve been in getting community involvement in this process and I look forward to doing the same thing in Philadelphia. Because, right now, I think we’re more reactive when it comes to trying to explain what happened as opposed to being proactive and helping people better understand the challenges that officers face on a day to day basis, and, when force is used, how much is too much? Barry 03:38 Now, when the COPS Office worked with Las Vegas it resulted in a pretty extensive report; A Collaborative Reform Process: A Review of Officer Involved Shootings in the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department is the title of that publication. Now do you think that you’ll be able to use that document in your department? Charles 03:56 Oh, I know we’ll be able to use it. We actually started reviewing that document last November. And I established subcommittees to take a look at policy, training, and follow-up investigations; those are the three subcommittees that we formed. But my sense was that it wasn’t enough for us to take it upon ourselves to do a kind of self-assessment if you will; that we needed some additional support. So I contacted the Acting Director Josh Ederheimer, who I worked with when I was Chief in Washington, D.C., and we had a discussion around the COPS Office doing a similar study for the Philadelphia Police Department that they did in Las Vegas and he agreed to do that. So we’re going to be conducting a study of our own. Many of the recommendations I would presume would be pretty much the same. And we are totally prepared to implement whatever recommendations come from this. I think this is the way to handle these situations—the collaborative reform process as opposed to you know, coming in and you don’t have the cooperation of the department or the city and it’s a fight and it’s just court decrees and all that sort of thing. If you want to institutionalize change then people have to come along willingly and that’s the challenge: is to really communicate internally so people understand what we’re doing; and also with our political leadership, so they understand what we’re doing; and also with the community so they understand what we’re doing. So if we’re able to do all three of those successfully, not only will we have a positive change, we’ll have lasting change. Barry 05:27 Great, well Commissioner Ramsey, thank you so much for spending a few minutes with us today. We really appreciate it. Charles 05:31 Well, thank you. Voiceover: Beat Exit 05:33 The Beat was brought to you by the United States Department of Justice, COPS Office. The COPS Office helps to keep our nation’s communities safe by giving grants to law enforcement agencies, developing community policing publications, developing partnerships, and solving problems. Voiceover: Disclaimer 05:50 The opinions contained herein are those of the authors and do not necessarily represent the official position or polices of the U.S. Department of Justice. References to specific agencies, companies, products, or services should not be considered an endorsement by the authors or the U.S. Department of Justice. Rather, the references are illustrations to supplement discussion of the issues.