Radicalization Podcast for September 2011 Beat Intro Voiceover 00.08 This is the Beat – a podcast series that keeps you in the know about the latest community policing topics facing our nation. Interview Jeremy Writt 00.15 Hello and welcome. On behalf of the COPS Office, I’m Jeremy Writt. And I’m here with Chief Ronald Haddad of the City of Dearborn Police Department. We’re here today to talk about radicalization. Now Chief, in terms of law enforcement, what do we mean when we use the word, radicalization? Ron 00.30 You know, first of all, to say that it’s evolving, it’s complex, it means different things to different people and there’s no one pat answer for that question will underscore the problem. But radicalization, basically, as I understand it, is the ideology that someone may employ and the outcome would be a revolt against a particular culture, society, religion – where they believe so strongly in what they are doing that they employ violence to get their point across. Jeremy 01.06 And how big of a problem is this? Ron 01.07 You know, the outcomes can be huge problems. You can look around the world and see the events that have happened – and you know, I think Timothy McVeigh, for example, was a terrorist. I think right out here in Arizona, most recently, that man terrorized people; he shot a congresswoman. Certainly Bin Laden is a terrorist of global proportion. It’s a huge problem. Jeremy 01.32 Who should law enforcement be bringing in to help with this kind of problem? Ron 01.35 Well you know, certainly the global intelligence community has a pulse on what’s happening around the world. They see trends, indicators that those of us at the local level may never be exposed to. And I think that there’s a strong need to keep that confidential and secret, but I think when certain trends, certain types of training that are being afforded in foreign or covert places are identified – I think that those kind of indicators, when appropriate, should be passed on to the localities because we just may come across something like that and so I think we all need to work together. I have a great appreciation for the intelligence community, you know, at a local and state level. And it starts by reducing crime, identifying major crime – it’s all-hazards approach and it will further impact the item of terrorism as well. Jeremy 02.38 In your jurisdiction you used community-oriented police to help mitigate the problem of radicalization. What are some of the specific ways you are solving this problem? Ron 02.47 Well, you know, proactively we’ve done a number of things. We have a very active police explorer post here – career development – we get kids from the community; they serve as goodwill ambassadors and role models that break down stereotypes. And during these very hard economic times, we’ve carved out a little part of the budget for interns – because again, with the interns, we try to motivate kids to test high, maintain a high grade point average, then we select a few each year from the senior class and they have some college reimbursement, but they have to do well there and they have to take law enforcement classes. We’ve also put on a youth academy -- classes for young people right across the board to try to proactively reach them with some degree respect. On the challenging side, we’ve identified people in the Yemen community – young people that are struggling in school, they have a 1.7 grade point average and not surprising – they’re single-parent households, so the social problems that any single parent would have raising a young boy that’s trying to assimilate here – they have. And we found that some of them were susceptible to gang activity, assaultive behavior and anti-social behavior, so we work very close with school officials and social agencies in that particular community – to identify them and to try to bring them forward. As you might know, I served on Secretary Napolitano’s Homeland Security Committee here last April. And one of the things we recommended – and it’s a tall order – was that just maybe when one of these individuals is brought to the attention of a school counselor by a third party – meaning a teacher or a parent or a psychiatrist or an Imam or a reverend or a social worker. You know oftentimes they go to those parties and sometimes those parties are not really in a position to help them, but some violence or some real harmful anti-social behavior is indicated. We’re trying to get some type of legislation or administrative procedural laws passed, that at the very least, those individuals – including doctors – can say well, you know, this might be something you may want to report to your local police department. So I think those kind of things will go a long way in diffusing these type of individuals. And if you stop and look at the tennis shoe bomber – these were loners (;like the Virginia Tech shoot)r.) But people try to report them. People try to report them to appropriate agencies. Mr. Abdulmutallab – his father went to some high-ranking government officials in Africa and tried to report that he felt his son was up to something and you know, he ends up making it as far as the Michigan skies and he was right over Dearborn when they ended up slamming him to the ground on the airplane. So you know we have to have an open line of communication. We have to continue to educate the public and they have to trust their police – that they’re going to do the right thing and it does start at the local level. We’re the biggest in number. We’re the first line of defense, if you will, that the community will come to and you’ve got to establish that trust before you have the problem. You have to ensure that there’s an open line of communication. I, for example, serve on a number of civil rights organizations and committees here in the state because I want to know how they feel. I want to ensure them that we operate within the Constitution and that we foster just a good communication, a good relationship with all segments of our community. Jeremy 06.37 Well I think your key word there was pro-activity. Are there any other lessons that you’ve learned that might benefit other agencies in dealing with this problem? Ron 06.45 I think the major lesson, Jeremy, is this – that we can’t assume all people are terrorists and put them on the defensive. What we should assume is that the vast majority of people are good people, because that’s the case. If everybody of a particular ethnicity or religion or color or affiliation was a terrorist we’d really be in big trouble here. The reality is that those who engage in true acts of terror are a very small minority and what we want to make sure is that somebody who’s salvageable, reachable – that we can intercede proactively. So you have to treat the community as an equal partner. And that’s all segments – be it the faith-based community, civic groups, ethnic groups – they have to be truly respected. And I found – I’ve been in law enforcement I like to tell people 38 short years of my life - and the greatest learning job I had was when I was forced to become a community relations officer right before I made sergeant in the Detroit police department. And you know, we tend to be in a responsive business. We’re on the go, we’re reactionary. And that job that I was forced to take taught me that the vast majority of people are there trying to defend their communities, defend their homes, their businesses. And when you reach out to them they’re more than willing to be an equal partner and help you out. So everything from cleaning the streets to reporting crime – it’s absolutely amazing. Here in Dearborn, we’ve had a serious uptake in serious crime lately – major crime. The vast majority of those cases were brought to closure much sooner because citizens from all around the region have given us tips. We had three robberies here in Dearborn and a number of citizens from Detroit appeared here at the police station. They had trust in our city and in our police department to come in here and give us very valuable information that allowed us to go out and make three arrests outside of our city limits. And then as we find out – not much to anybody’s surprise – these three individuals were wanted for robberies throughout the region. So people have to trust you and they have to have a reasonable expectation that you’ll respond to them. But the most important thing – we have to work hard to make people equal partners long before any of these kind of events take place. You can’t come in cold and demand that somebody lock arms with you and take a strong stand against terror in their community when you haven’t built that relationship and when it is a very elusive thing to define. So we have to be careful, but we can’t sit down on it. We have to adopt a policy that protects our nation one block at a time. And I feel that the vast majority of people are good Americans and they need to be treated as such. And if you find somebody having to defend or explain the fact that they’re American just like you or I, you’re behind the curve. Those people, whoever those people may be – and I’m not putting them in that category – but whoever that individual or group may be, they’re already at a disadvantage to help you because they should not have to stand up and defend that they’re Americans just like you or I. Jeremy 10.08 Of course not. Well Chief, unfortunately we’ve run out of time. But I want to thank you again for taking the time to talk with us today. On behalf of Chief Ronald Haddad and the City of Dearborn Police and of course, the COPS Office, I’m Jeremy Writt. Beat Exit Voiceover: The Beat was brought to you by the United States Department of Justice COPS Office. The COPS Office helps to keep our nation’s communities safe by giving grants to law enforcement agencies, developing community policing publications, developing partnerships and solving problems. ####END OF TRANSCRIPT####